Girls vs Boyfriends (The Mary Sue)

[Kitten]

Hello there! I was just wondering how everyone else felt about the girl who always seems to get in the middle of the two guys in manga/anime. I personally think it adds to the story and makes the struggle seem more believable.

But what is it about these girls that is so detestable? Take Relena Peacecraft (Gundam Wing) for instance. Who likes her? NO ONE! Why? What about her is so.... annoying?

And what is with the Mary-Sue? Who thinks it is a good idea to take the 'perfect' girl and force her on every perfectly fine homosexual in a series? Just a few quandaries!

[Cross-chan]

Oh, I think people can be very childish about the whole love triangle thing. It's interesting, I feel, but the girl can often be portrayed as a real...pain. I mean, I didn't mind terribly that in Kannaduki no Miko, there was a guy who liked the female lead. It just makes it even nicer when the two guys overcome that.

And I don't think there's a problem with Relena... I didn't mind her. Heero is not really intended to be overtly homosexual in the canon series, and... I think some people can get upset by that. Which is why in fanfiction/rps they will either make her a complete and utter female dog, or, they'll kill her off (happens to Bulma/Chichi a lot >_>) for the convenience of Heero & Duo. X3

Well, I dislike Mary-Sues and character insertions intensely - but that doesn't just have to be Mary-Sues. It can be Gary-Stu's, or "Vegeta's/Hiei's/Heero's/Naruto's long lost brother/sister/cousin". Just original characters in canon universes, really. >3 Seems lame.

[Mushy]

I'm not familiar with Gundam Wing so I can't say anything about that.
I just know it really depends on whether the guys are canon or not...and I know this is going to be long, because I actually have a bit of a rant. I can share or not share this opinion, you know? I happen to like girl charaters...just not all.

Even then, well...I like girls?
Take for instance, Loveless. I like Soubi x Ritsuka, but I love the character Yuiko. She's always been there for Ritsuka, and likewise, he does care about her (just not in the same way). She's still an invaluable friend, female or not. ^_^ Though her affection for Ritsuka does make the story more believable, as you say.

Then you get something like .hack//GU, where Haseo isn't really canon with anyone (but you can play with their affection). Endrance (male) cares for Haseo, after Haseo says he needed him (for an arena fight). I'm not a fan of Haseo at first - he's such a big jerk-off! - but Atoli...the female main character? UGH! She looks exactly like Shino only with a different color setup. Shino is a close friend of Haseo's in The World and he visits her offline in the hospital after she was PK'ed and went into a coma. And then here comes Atoli.

"Look at me! Look at me!"

She really says stuff like that. WORD FOR WORD. She tries to get Haseo's attention. She knows she looks like Shino, and instead of being sensative, she's jealous. And he isn't exactly nice, but....Atoli ends up having stuff happen to her in the story.

At the end, if you choose to marry Endrance, well...Shino's back and seems to enjoy this, and Atoli collapses in utter despair. >.<;
By then, Haseo's grown on me.

Though, admittedly, I like Endrance x Zelkova...but I still like Endrance x Haseo!

Let's see...there's also Sophia in Star Ocean. Poor girl gets hung in a closet. There's only one thing she ever does that really pisses me off, and that's telling Fayt everything will be fine, but when something similar happens to her - she's suddenly put in shock. Can't really shrug that off, now that it's your pain, can you? >>;

Otherwise, I love Sophia. But Fayt x Albel fans torture her in art. It's sadistic, and suddenly she's trying to break up the pairing when...she's just Fayt's childhood friend! Honestly, Fayt doesn't want anything to happen to her.

Actually, in my game, Albel's really mad at me and won't heal me well in battle because I let Sophia die too often. I have to heal myself, but Albel and Sophia will only heal each other! And yes, the game's system is just complex enough to do that... >.<; Sorry Sophia!

She shows no indication of intense jealousy as long as you don't boost her affection...as far as I can tell, she's just lets Fayt be most of the time...

Yet she gets blamed for things out of her control. "Oh, she's such a Mary-Sue, why'd she have to go and injure her ankle?" I'm pretty sure she didn't do that on purpose...

Tohru in Fruits Basket gets hated on for getting between Kyo and Yuki. Um, canon-wise, Yuki and Kyo fight and name-call and generally dislike each other intensely. If it wasn't for Tohru, they'd probably hate each other more, not less. =/ Besides, Tohru's kind. She inspired me a lot to be a better person. I don't understand this unreasonable, blind hatred for kind girls. Besides, she's the one with the fantasy of Yuki and Kyo getting along and holding hands... >>;

Lastly, Hiyono. D:
Of Spiral.

So many spoilers in this one, but basically...she drives Ayumu insane. At the same time, he's not capable of having enough faith in himself to do anything on his own. In the manga, she goes to extreme lengths to buy him time and help him out when he's in a pinch. Without her, Ayumu would likely be DEAD. Bombs would have gone off, other people would have successfully shot him...Hiyono is invaluable. The most invaluable.

She steals Ayumu's bentos, and she's always around him and not acting "feminine" enough - so she tends to get some negative comments from fans as well. Ayumu would never admit that she's grown on him. Never, ever...well, maybe, but not likely. x_x

I like Ayumu x Hizumi, and I like some het or threesome pairings in here that are pretty...diverse. xD Hiyono isn't who she seems, but it doesn't take back all she has done for Ayumu - and her reasons are different. She does care about Ayumu, or at least...she really starts to. A guy, who hates yaoi, stated that Ayumu x Hizumi isn't unlikely...it really doesn't happen in canon, but you'd have to read the manga to understand what I mean...

Hiyono at least isn't the most hated, but I think she's one of the characters who gets hated that bothers me the most. I loooooove her. She's funny, well designed (what character isn't in Spiral), and...I don't know. I just happen to really like her. =)

I just see a lot of hatred for her sometimes, given that I sniff out every guild, forum, and thread on Spiral. People hate her. She gets near Ayumu, and she's stupid. Ayumu should be with Eyes, Kousuke, Kanone, Hizumi (if people have read the manga), even Kiyotaka! o.O; I see people write Hiyono based fanfictions...or rather, Hiyono bashing fanfictions. x_x I HATE IT. They're not even trolls...they just write yaoi and then bash her.

Girls can make good allys. =)

But Mary-Sues (ones in canon, or ones that fangirls add) are SCARY. Same with Gary-Stus, as Cross-chan mentioned. xD Suddenly some annoying goth emo girl with abilities beyond her imagining is showing up to woo Sephiroth...lmfao. And she does it, of course! She's so magical and special that she can do it! LOL.

I admit, some are scarier than others, and I've made a few self inserts before...but I admit, I hide them in shame...

[Macha]

Originally Posted by Kitten

But what is it about these girls that is so detestable? Take Relena Peacecraft (Gundam Wing) for instance. Who likes her? NO ONE!

One of my best friends - a gay man, by the way - really likes her.

See, these characters mostly are demonized by fans because they get in the way of their beloved couple. USUALLY, they aren't really all that bad.


The problem is only when it is exxagerated. Like this new character wanting to "fix" the ICKY GAY MENZ HORROR. That is bad, I'd totally agree.
But a normal female character who is just there and simply happens to like one of the guys? No problem.

Course, I think self insert characters, and original characters in general, just suck as far as fanfic goes. When I read fanfic, I want to read about known characters, not about the new abomination of a character some fan came up with.

[ShamanLeaf]

Hmmm...
Theres something I've always wondered...
Could be such a thing of a guy version of a Mary-Sue?
o.o
Just wondering
>.<

[Kitten]

I believe there is. I think people call him a Gary-Stu. He tends to be as over the top, over dramatic, and overly annoying as the Mary-Sue. Just in man form.

[Cross-chan]

Mostly any character who is central to the plot, male or female, who is extremely intellectual, powerful, cute, awesome, and so on, who usually turns out to be a romantic interest, or related to, a main character. I'd name names, but that would be cruel~! Kukukuuu~!

[ShamanLeaf]

I never read one of those before O.o'''''

[Cross-chan]

It's best that you don't. I hear that they're damaging to your health. >__>

[ShamanLeaf]

-_-;
I could imagine...
So with the guy versions do they make it het or yaoi?